It is very profound. Catholic praise music. Pope John Paul II once said " if the Church holds back from culture, the Gospel itself will fall silent." I am not a Catholic aritist who anymore tries to push the boundries on the music supporting the Holy Mass. The music needs to be sacred and liturgically support the mass. My definition of this is that if it supports the Gospel and it is easy for people to sing along to, then it is appropriate. If anyone has been to a liturgy i have contributed music to in the past 8 years, they have seen a more contemporary flavor, but in recent times i have felt that the mass needs to be reverent. Our traditions, the sacraments and the Holy Eucharist is second to none and cannot be compromised in the process of musical praise no matter where you are praising. We cannot water down or compromise our faith just to fit in, but always be warm and welcoming in this effort. That is my opinion as a Catholic songwriter. On the other hand, It is also important to encourage energy and emotion at key times, even during the mass or as well as at the usual youth rally. I suppose this will always be a fine line to walk, but i'd rather lean towards being more reverent than energetic. Maybe just for the Processional and Ressesional slots (entering and leaving) It is a fine line to walk i must say. We have to respect that not everyone loves the full band rocking at a mass, even if they are jazzing up traditional sacred music. Some folks do not like the guitar being used in the liturgy. I guess it is a good thing that there are different services that reflect a different energy that folks can choose from at our parishes. However, the lesson learned should be that It is like anthing else, we all have different opinions and ways we worship. We have to respect that. I just wanted to say something really quick about all of this since it has been on my mind. Please feel free to comment and share your feelings and opinions on this subject as I will find it very helpful!
God Bless
Dennis
Good thoughts Denny. I think it's awesome you're exploring the aspect of music in Mass. I remember in college I used to play guitar at lifeteen (in Lynden) and I was always adding a bit of distortion, trying to "push it" a little. I thought the more it sounds like a rock song, the better - but I realize now that rocking out in Mass takes away from the reverence of Mass. It's fascinating when we start to look at how to make Mass more reverent (and who wouldn't want to, it's the place where the Son of Man becomes physically present to us) it changes our long-held ideas of things.
ReplyDeleteIt is great to hear your thoughts on this, obviously a lot of thinking and reflection went into these words.
ReplyDeleteI grew up in varied musical environment: everything from hymns to '40s sentimental tunes to black Gospel choirs to Michael W. Smith (it was the late '80s after all--Amy Grant's heydey). When I grew up I came to favor more traditional music and when I became Catholic I wanted to leave all that evangelical/praise and worship stuff behind and be "really" Catholic--just the Latin, ma'am.
Since I've been in the Church a few years now I've come to accept that there are a variety of musical styles can *can* be appropriate for Mass, but like you I lean toward the reverent. I've seen well done and poorly done contemporary music. I'll spare you the examples!
My girls sing in the Schola Cantorum at St. James Cathedral and I love that they are learning the great Latin music along with more modern choral compositions. But we also love our K4J cd from VBS this summer (by David Howie) which is very high energy rock style kids' devotional music that is totally Catholic and very well done. Not appropriate for Mass but really enjoyable for kid activities or just listening to at home.
The funny thing to me about music for Mass is that what most people in the congregation call "traditional" music I would call contemporary. "One Bread, One Body" is nice as far as it goes, but it is not traditional and more than "This is the air I breathe" (or whatever the name of that song is). And really, hymnal songs like "Immaculate Mary" aren't that old either. To get really traditional you have to go back quite a bit further!
But I appreciate any efforts at bringing true reverence and devotion to Our Lord at Mass. I'm excited to see what results these thoughts of yours will bring to the liturgy at our parish.
very true. Thanks for the insight buddy, i remember that Lifeteen mass, I played alongside you and it was the first time i sang in a church haha. We were just young and trying to make the mass seem like a Pearl Jam concert..or..well a In Faire Verona concert ;). I think most Catholics can agree that the mass needs to have reverence, just some would like more and some would like less. I struggle with the idea of soft ambient music behind the Eucharistic Prayers, just to enhance the experience, but then I'm like, how much more enhanced can it become? He becomes the Bread of Life for crying out loud, i do not think a C Em G progression on the guitar takes it over the top or anything. See where I'm at? =) God Bless you buddy!
ReplyDeleteWow, awesome post LeeAnn. Thank you. Sounds like we see things on the same plane. Your right in what you say about what traditional "really" is. Depends on when you grew up or if you have studied the history of the Church. Like i said before, i walk the line because it is important to ride and push the energy in the appropriate places, just not force it where it does not belong and demonstrate through action and song proper reverence (i.e. hands folded in front of you facing alter tabernacle, kneeling, etc..). This goes along way, I feel a responsibility with young people seeing me to set the right example in posture and in liturgical musicial taste, even with the Youth Mass and P & W concerts i play. I take advantage of these situations. However, i am and still will remain reluctant against attire. While respecting Church mandate, i disagree with folks who feel that the way you look (i.e. hair style, clothes, non-offensive tattoos etc..) becomes a distraction or offends Our Lord during liturgy. Like we have discussed before, no one knows the heart but God. Thanks again LeeAnn for more interesting insight! God Bless you my sister in Christ and thank you for all the formation work you do for our youth!
ReplyDeleteDennis- I think you do a great job of being tasteful in how you approach the music in the Mass. Thank you for posting your feelings, struggles, and comments about this subject. There is a time and a place for the "type" of song that is played, especially like you mentioned about playing background music during the Eucharistic Prayers...the Eucharist IS the focus of the Mass and it may be distracting to some if there is something else going on in the process. I personally feel a deep conviction to music and it doesn't bother me when or where it's played...it has the power to lift our spirits, heal our troubled hearts and minds, and be deeply moving. There are times when I just want to weep listening to a more "contemporary" song during the Mass and knowing the great sacrifice that Jesus made for all of us, makes the experience even more moving. Music and lyrics have a way of touching people in different ways, the lyrics that are many times born from someone's personal experiences, tragedies, triumphs, can inspire us to pull closer in our worship and help us to have a greater sense of passion and devotion to our Lord; who is always there for us and loves us so much.
ReplyDeleteLike LeeAnn, I didn't grow up Catholic, I was used to hearing more "contemporary" type music being sung at church services, so once I joined the Catholic Church 22 years ago, I began to have a better appreciation for the older more typical hymns at Church, but kind of missed hearing the more contemporary songs. I would tune into different Christian radio stations, buy CDs, etc to fill that void I felt. Once we came to Holy Cross, both Doug and I were so excited when we heard the music being played and have personally felt like it has enhanced our journey of Faith. I think a good mix of the old and new goes a long way and will probably for the most part, satisfy everyone's own personal need for the gift of music that we are blessed to be able to express and share with our community and in our own hearts and worship.
"Sing joyfully to the Lord, all you lands; serve the Lord with gladness; come before him with joyful song." Psalm 100:1-2
Thank you for the gift that you share, keep up the great work! God Bless
Well I have grown up Catholic, but I have been given a good view of the non-denominational side of things through school and friends. While I know a lot of Catholics prefer what you are calling "traditional" music for mass, I think what one deems appropriate is very subjective. I feel like the more contemporary Christian songs help me to focus on God and praise Him so much more directly. I know this is how I feel and not everyone feels this way, but I think its important that in a church community, all attempts should be made to serve and provide for the whole group's needs. While I haven't been back to Holy Cross for awhile, last I was there, I think you were doing a wonderful job of that, Dennis.
ReplyDeleteThanks Morgan and Amy. Good stuff. Thank you as well for the support. The Lord has blessed me so I am happy to share and give His love back in music form.
ReplyDeleteHey Dennis, thanks for posting on the Cartoon Blog.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I'd like to add here is that when "we" talk about not liking the guitar, it's not that all guitar is bad. It's just that the folksy/rock type stuff is just awful at a Mass.
At my home parish, they were having guitar masses every other week, and we only had a 7am and 10am mass, so if you didn't like it, you had to go to the 7am or go somewhere else.
Well, I was going somewhere else most of the summer and my priest called me at work one day and said "I haven't seen you!". I told him that I couldn't deal with the guitar mass - it really was ridiculously loud and obnoxious - and he agreed that it was bad, but indicated that he had to go along with it.
So please don't take it personally - it's just that I (and others) see the "guitar issue" as part of a larger effort to turn the mass into something it's not supposed to be.
Dennis, you might be interested in the occasional conversation Erin Manning has going on music at Mass from the perspective of a member of a small parish choir:
ReplyDeletehttp://redcardigan.blogspot.com/2009/09/notes-from-choir.html
I am not certain I agree with her 100% but she makes for thoughtful reading.
And I hear you on the church attire issue. I go back and forth on the jeans/shorts being appropriate for Mass. Unfortunately I think it is a very subjective thing--it would be so much easier if there were just one rule for everyone to follow--but what is dressed up for me is different for others. And then there's that whole idea of the church being a hospital for sinners and that we come there in whatever state we're in: broken, dirty, sinful, sweatpants, flipflops and all. ;) I have encountered some bad attitudes at times regarding clothing--something along the lines of "I dress up all week for work, when I come to church I just want to relax and wear my jeans/sweats/whatever." I'm not sure what to do with that attitude. Yes, the church is a place of rest, but also a house of worship where we stand in the presence of the Most High. And if the Church, especially the Liturgy in which we come into Communion with Jesus, is a foretaste of heaven, should we not try to reflect that as best as possible in our appearance? Does that make any sense?
Anyhow, sorry I have to run and my thoughts in incomplete.
Gee Dennis, you should have left that comment - it would have been good for the conversation.
ReplyDeleteLeeAnn. I agree with you and dont all at the same time. But when it comes down to it, there is a beauty in obedeince, and our culture today lacks that in a very big way, so I will always follow the Church mandates, simply put. But i am not feeding the judgment of others on ones appearance. Does that make sense? Thanks for your post!
ReplyDeletePaul,
Thank you for your opinions and feedback, i guess i feel like the guitar can be played as an accompaniment or a lead when done reverently and tastefully. If you know where the line is and really depends on what you and others consider "rock n roll". I lead with a guitar with a occasional piano accompaniment. I play some contemporary music and some very traditional hymns like Prayer of St. Francis, Mary's Song etc.. I play tunes like Cry of the Poor, Hear I Am Lord, I Am the Bread of Life. I usually pick these tunes appregio or strum lightly and sing softly. I mean it would hard to offend someone and is the fatherest thing from "rock" you can be with a guitar in my opinion. Is it reverent, absolutley. Is it rocking, loud, and distracting. No. I always looking at ways to enhance the quality of the music during the Liturgy; However, i will never compromise the struture of such with a aim to quench my personaly musical desires (i.e. ego). Do I have one, of course I do, so do you and everyone else, but it is how you control that and i FIRMLY believe the closer you are to Christ and if you live your faith daily then it is easier to lose yourself, pick up your cross and truck after our Savior. God Bless you Paul.
Yes i tmight have sparked some interest, but i was upset and let my emotions carry over into the forum and I do not want to be someone who does that. I want to be respectful to others opinions. i just get frusterated that others thing the guitar at mass is destructive..justa hurts me i suppose. That is not a reason to get angry and say hurtful things. Silver lining? I find myself evalutating the music i provide at mass, even if it is desired at my parish and others i play from time to time, i just want dont want to take advantage of that situation, so i pray..
ReplyDeleteI find these comments quite interesting to be honest. I however am not a good judge of what Catholic services (mass?) should be like. I'm a non-denominational Christian that enjoys many styles of worship music. If your heart is in the place of worship towards the King, then there ultimately is no right or wrong way to worship in my opinion. If there was, I'd venture a guess that probably 99% of us would be failing to praise our Father. His disciples reveled in the fact that they could simply be in His presence... It didn't matter where they were or what they were doing. They were with him and that was enough for them. Worship is one of the ways that we have of 'being with Him'. He responds to the praise and worship from his children, and is moved by the love that is shown. I HIGHLY DOUBT he gets concerned with the method or delivery to how we are 'with him', but instead rejoices in the praise we show for our creator. Being a worship leader is a tricky spot to be in, as people tend to hold you responsible for their lack of enthusiasm for a particular style of praise and worship etc. We as Christian music leaders (and in my case, audio engineer) can't turn a deaf ear nor blind eye to this problem, yet we cannot allow ourselves to feel directed by the goals of others. We must remember why we do what we do... It's all for the love of the King. For all good things that we do are first willed in us by our Father. Apart from him we can do nothing.
ReplyDeleteSome great points Jaret. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteThis is a post from Casey Ross, it wouldnt post for him for some reason.
ReplyDelete"I think it's important to define "reverence"... I keep hearing that term thrown around as synonymous with "silence". I stand in awe and reverence when I see a grand slam home run hit in the last inning to win a baseball game... followed by active joyous participation in the victory. How much greater is Christ's victory over sin and invitation to redemption? I have talked with people who truly believe that the liturgy is somehow diminished if any form of music other than Gregorian chant is used... as if a fully redeemed culture will automatically look like Medieval European cathedrals or an idealized 1950's pre-Vatican II suburban Catholic church. And people are allowed their preferences in music & culture. Mine just happen to be different. I believe with all of my heart that the Church is the Church of the living... and is not meant to be a museum to preserve past glories. The Glory of God needs to be proclaimed boldly and relevantly to transform todays culture! To achieve this, liturgical music should take into account the culture of the people and lead them into active participation in the different actions of the liturgy. To this end, under the leadership of your pastor and considering the American culture -specifically, the American culture in need evangelization by the Gospel- arrangements with guitars & drums are very appropriate in liturgical celebrations? Although I know many who would not prefer them. What makes us Catholic (Universal) is not our musical preference across continents... it is the body & blood of Jesus.
blessings,
casey"
This statement by my good buddy Casey Ross has purpose and hope. A hope for a living faith that transends personal musical tastes. The Body and Blood unites us all.
ReplyDeleteTo Paul Nichols and anyone else who doesn't like the guitar being played at Mass, let me remind you of the words found in Psalm 150, with special attention to verse 4:
ReplyDelete1. Hallelujah! Praise God in his holy sanctuary; give praise in the mighty dome of heaven.
2. Give praise for his mighty deeds, praise him for his great majesty.
3. Give praise with blasts upon the horn, praise him with harp and lyre.
4. Give praise with tambourines and dance, praise him with flutes and STRINGS.
5. Give praise with crashing cymbals, praise him with sounding cymbals.
6. Let everything that has breath give praise to the Lord! Hallelujah!
Dennis is absolutely correct when he says (I'm paraphrasing) that the most important thing is reverence and liturgical appropriateness. Of course everyone will have his/her own preference in musical styles, but there is nothing in the Bible that indicates that the organ or piano is more appropriate than guitar or drums (and I say that as a keyboardist and horn player).
I think I missed something....
ReplyDeleteDennis, I think I understand what you mean by "feeding the judgment of others" but perhaps that's something you might have time to address further another day.
To just briefly complete my thoughts from earlier today: we spend the time, effort and money on making the church building itself to honor God because we understand that visible beauty is an aid to worship. Thus, we have statues, icons, stained glass, or at least banners and altar cloths and the priest's vestments to turn our minds to the source of beauty, Beauty Himself.
Yes, we can worship God in an ugly church, a cinderblock hut or no church at all, but when we are able, surely providing a place of beauty to worship is to the benefit of the faithful.
My question then is, is there a case to be made in how we adorn ourselves? Does how we dress make any difference in how we worship God?
Again, we end up with a subjective answer, so obviously the best course is not to judge anyone for their appearance because we cannot know their hearts, only God can. Of course we do set some limits out of concern for modesty--in some places more strictly than others--but beauty in appearance is a matter of cultural and personal taste and as you say, Church mandates and Tradition should guides us in finding these limits.
Sorry to take things so off topic, although perhaps you can see the parallels for music as well.
Perhaps the overlying problem is that as a culture we do not have the uniformity and homogenity that of previous societies. We have so many different definitions of beauty, modesty, appropriateness, reverence, etc., that conflict is inevitable in all these areas. We have so many more choices in all things and thus so many more opportunities for conflicting opinions.
Hi everyone, Hi Dennis,
ReplyDeletegreat post, and great discussions going on here, I like when we debate in respect and love for each other.
I think we have to deal with several issues in the liturgy:
- first of, let us be honest, and recognise that some of the 70's/80's catholic songs, and even recent ones, are quite poorly written in regards to the liturgy, although they might fit well in another context.
- second, and I think it's a crucial point, what is the church saying? Basically, the church asks us to stick to the tradition because, well, the tradition is what links us back to Christ, is it not? BUT (and that's a big but), it is also advised, in countries of mission, to integrate the culture of those countries in the liturgy, through music for example, in appropriate ways. Personally, I think the UK and France were I come from are DEFINITELY countries of mission now. Most people have NO IDEA about who Jesus really is, and we generally live in a culture separated from Christ and the church. So, to simply allow people to understand the basics of faith, and cultural adaptation has to be done. But I agree with Dennis, it is a fine line.